Elena, Mel, and Cerid get technical and discuss the software Mel used to create her books, plus the benefit of hiring a professional book designer, and fostering a community of new and seasoned writers and editors who can learn from each other. Mel and Cerid also share their marketing plans, as well as their hopes and projections for the projects once they are released into the world.
Referenced in this Episode:
River and Stone Anthology, edited by Mel Reynolds, is available to purchase!
- Buy River and Stone in print or Ebook on Amazon
- Buy River and Stone in print from Barnes & Noble
- Buy River and Stone Ebook from Barnes & Noble
Cerid’s project — Speculative Fiction New Zealand’s anthology, Artificial Sweetener — will be out later this year!
Episode Transcript:
Elena L. Perez (00:04):
Hello, everyone. My name is Elena Perez. I am the editor-in-chief of The Metaworker.
Melissa Reynolds (00:10):
And I’m Melissa Reynolds, also an editor with The Metaworker.
Cerid Jones (00:15):
And I’m Cerid Jones, the international editor here at The Metaworker.
Elena L. Perez (00:20):
And this is part two of our Creating Anthologies podcast, where I’m talking to Mel and Cerid about their anthology projects within their respective communities. Just a note from future Elena. We did record this way back in July, and since then, Mel’s Anthology, “River and Stone”, has completed production, so it’s out in the world right now. We have links in the description for you to check it out or purchase. In the meantime, let’s get into the episode. Let’s switch gears and get a little more technical. (laughs) Let’s talk about the software and formatting. And did you decide, well, I don’t know if you’ve decided this yet, Cerid, but Mel, have you decided to do a physical book, an ebook? Talk about formatting.
Melissa Reynolds (01:04):
I am doing both a print and ebook and I’m using Atticus because as much experience I have with editing and judging and reviewing stories, I’m light on the other side of things. So, I did a little bit of research and saw that Atticus was pretty user-friendly and the learning curve to figure out how to use it isn’t as steep as maybe InDesign. Also cheaper. (laughs)
Elena L. Perez (01:38):
Describe for people who don’t know, like me until you told me about it, but describe what Atticus is exactly.
Melissa Reynolds (01:46):
So, it is a software program that pretty much, as far as I can tell, automatically formats any document that you upload to industry standards for both ebook and print, you know, when you wanna publish. What I’m learning is that when you upload something, you want it to be as plain as possible, because if you don’t, it will go nuts on the other end. Because I’ve uploaded and deleted the anthology probably, like, four times now. (laughs)
Elena L. Perez (02:27):
Oh, no.
Melissa Reynolds (02:29):
But it is really user-friendly. It’s got—you can write in this program as well, so it’s a little bit like, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Scrivener?
Elena L. Perez (02:41):
I’m not, but I’m sure lots of people are. (laughs)
Melissa Reynolds (02:43):
Yeah. So, you know, you can write your chapters directly in this program and you can keep track of your progress. The video I watched said that you can put in photos if you want, copy and paste it directly into the program, you can start a series, you can do a book, you can do…I think that’s about it. It’s pretty straightforward. And then when you go into the formatting, you can pick what kind of font you want. There’s not a ton of options. I think there’s seventeen, but they will automatically put in chapter headings and any little extras like borders that you might want, and the pretty font, all that good stuff.
Elena L. Perez (03:27):
Oh, nice.
Melissa Reynolds (03:28):
And you can customize and make your own template, but if you do that, they don’t guarantee that it will be up to the ebook-slash-print standards, I guess.
Elena L. Perez (03:40):
Yeah, because for those listeners who are not aware, you have to format the books differently if you’re gonna print the book versus publish it as an ebook. There are different fonts that you have to use that are easier to read in an ebook format versus fonts that are easier to read in a printed format. So, there’s a lot of different formatting styles that you have to take into account. It sounds like Atticus kind of takes all of those variables out of the equation and just kind of automatically does it for you, so you don’t have to think about that versus if you were to use InDesign, for example, which is what I used when I was putting my anthologies together. You do have to be aware of the margins and the font style that you use and you have to export it a certain way. So, yeah, I feel your pain, Mel, having to upload it multiple times. I was the same with mine. It was a rush to get it to the printer and yeah. (laughs) I feel you there.
Melissa Reynolds (04:47):
Yeah, I think the margins is the biggest one.
Elena L. Perez (04:50):
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Reynolds (04:52):
You know, Patty—that was another thing. She’s been down this road, so she talked to me about, ‘Hey, listen, you know, you gotta be careful with your margins because if you get ’em too close on the inside, when the reader…’
Elena L. Perez (05:04):
Yeah, the gutter. Oh, my gosh, I did that. That was…(laughs)
Melissa Reynolds (05:07):
So, when you open it up, you can’t see all the words. I’m like, ‘ah, that makes sense’. (laughs) But it’s something you don’t really think about as an author until you actually have to do it yourself, kind of thing.
Elena L. Perez (05:19):
Right.
Melissa Reynolds (05:19):
But the biggest takeaway is keep it simple in your Google—or I think they take Google, I’m not sure—Microsoft Word thing, not even indents for your new paragraphs, because it automatically does that in Atticus, all the indents are there.
Elena L. Perez (05:38):
Nice.
Melissa Reynolds (05:39):
Yeah, the main thing is, like, if you want a new chapter, just use heading one and it’ll automatically do it. You don’t have to do anything else. So. I’m downplaying it a little bit because I feel like I’m cheating. ‘Cause, you know, saying, ‘oh, I’m formatting this book’, you know, that sounds very important. And Patty, she pays a lady seventy bucks to format everything for her separately.
Elena L. Perez (06:09):
Oh, wow. I mean, it takes time. So, don’t think of it as cheating, per se, because it is very time consuming. I don’t remember exactly, but I know it took like a few weeks for me to put together our book. And our book was only, I don’t know, maybe forty pages.
Melissa Reynolds (06:27):
Something that I thought of that’s driving me nuts is how much you have to pay attention to detail, because if you make.
Elena L. Perez (06:36):
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Reynolds (06:37):
If you track changes, like when I did an edit for…I’ve done one for everyone that submitted, but I use ‘track changes’, and then when they return and approve, whatever, I clear them all out by ‘accept all’ or whatever. But the thing is, it will put in spaces sometimes in Word, so when you bring it into the final document, you have this big, beautiful new story, and you gotta go through word by word to make sure there’s only one space in between. And that’s been taking me forever.
Elena L. Perez (07:11):
Yep. Yep. Uh, I feel you. I like it, though. It’s actually fun for me to go through and, I mean, maybe not all the individual spaces, but like, you know, formatting it the way that you want to and…oh, that’s what I was gonna say. So, Atticus is just giving you the basic format, but if you wanted to, like you were saying, borders or, you know, the big first letter of the first chapter, or, you know, whatever special things. I don’t know how it handles. Um, I don’t know if you know how it handles special characters.
Melissa Reynolds (07:46):
It does.
Elena L. Perez (07:46):
Oh, good. That’s good.
Melissa Reynolds (07:49):
It depends on the theme that you pick. There’s some that does lines at the top. If you put in three asterisks, it’ll put in a chapter break or a line break. You know, like the pretty one, like a vine or a line or whatever you want. Uh, but you can’t customize it. You pick it, and that’s what you get.
Elena L. Perez (08:12):
Mm, yeah.
Melissa Reynolds (08:12):
I’ve seen that InDesign is the way to go if you want lots and lots of control.
Elena L. Perez (08:19):
Yeah.
Melissa Reynolds (08:20):
And when I did my research, there was a couple other ones that I can’t remember off the top of my head, but there’s several out there. And I believe even Scrivener is listed as that, too.
Cerid Jones (08:34):
Yeah. On that note, I’ll add one thing. Atticus is essentially the Windows version of Vellum. So, if you’re on Mac, you want Vellum, if you’re on windows, it’s Atticus. I don’t know if Atticus works on Mac. It might, I’m not too sure, but Valium, Atticus is the answer—Windows answer to Valium. Um, Valium, Valium, Valoom? (Vellum) I’m confused now. I’m turning into word salad. I’m not good with words today, apparently. But yeah, Valium, Valium. Vellum. That’s the one. Vellum. Um, yeah, Vellum.
Elena L. Perez (09:12):
Oh, yeah. The paper, like old paper.
Cerid Jones (09:13):
Yeah.
Elena L. Perez (09:13):
I think, yeah, that makes sense. (laughs)
Cerid Jones (09:16):
So, if you are on Mac, they’re more or less the same. There’s a bunch of templates, and you can insert things. Where these programs get complicated is where you’ve got unusual poetry formats or, you know, like you’re trying to get those extra line breaks and if you’re doing anything experimental or very specific in where words need to sit on a page, then you need a more complicated program than than these ones.
Elena L. Perez (09:48):
You gotta do custom.
Cerid Jones (09:49):
You gotta do custom. Yup. Which is tricks-y. I actually had an experience where I worked on a poetry collection for a single poet just, yeah, not a single poet, but you know, the one poet writing the whole thing,
Elena L. Perez (10:05):
Right. (laughs)
Cerid Jones (10:06):
You know what I’m saying? Um, one poet writing the whole thing and we spent ages. It was about six months I worked with her.
Elena L. Perez (10:14):
Yeah.
Cerid Jones (10:14):
And we spent ages organizing, you know, where all the words were gonna fit on the page. And we had this beautiful design for all of these pieces and then the publishing house that I was working for at that time just used Vellum or Atticus standard format. So, when the poetry book came out, everything was just all straight formatted.
Elena L. Perez (10:38):
That’s horrible.
Cerid Jones (10:39):
And I had no idea. Like, it was months after the thing was published before I saw it, and it just absolutely devastated me. And I’ve carried that with me when I ever get to a point where I’m actually producing work myself, especially poetry work, I’m gonna be very specific on (the) formatter used in design ’cause it makes a huge difference.
Elena L. Perez (11:02):
Yeah.
Cerid Jones (11:03):
It makes a huge difference.
Elena L. Perez (11:04):
I mean, I feel like a lot of applications don’t do a good job at being customizable for poetry, like WordPress that our website is on. It’s such a pain…
Melissa Reynolds (11:15):
Yeah.
Elena L. Perez (11:16):
…to put these poems on there. Software engineers, whoever you are, if you’re listening, take notes, make software that makes it easier…
Melissa Reynolds (11:26):
Mm-hmm.
Elena L. Perez (11:26):
…to format poems. (laughs).
Melissa Reynolds (11:28):
That would be amazing.
Elena L. Perez (11:31):
That would be amazing.
Cerid Jones (11:32):
Yes, it would, it absolutely would. In terms of me and formatting, Mel is way ahead of me. How we are going to organize when we get to the formatting is, Gary has done the previous anthology, he’s also self-published a lot of his own books. I think he’s got about fifty books or something like that, you know.
Elena L. Perez (11:52):
Oh, wow.
Cerid Jones (11:52):
So, he’s got some experience. I’m hoping to learn from him. My understanding is he’s going to be using the Amazon publishing—K-P-I? K-P-D? K-P-D. (Kindle Direct Publishing)
Elena L. Perez (12:06):
That’s that what I was gonna say. You mentioned that you could also do formatting in there, right?
Cerid Jones (12:10):
Yeah. My understanding—look, I haven’t done that yet. I’ve never reached this stage. In any of the stuff that I’ve done, my editing side and pre-publication, everything right up until the formatting (laughs), I feel quite experienced with. But the formatting is still kind of beyond me in many ways, shape, or forms. I’ve played with InDesign. I’ve done some mucking around there, but, um, nothing major. And I’ve never actually gone into Amazon to look at the, the KDP and how that system actually works. So, I’m really excited to learn that hopefully with this anthology and pick up a few different bits and pieces. I’m, you know, really excited to hear, Mel, that you are in this process too, because no doubt I’m gonna be calling you at some point in time being like, ‘Hey, Mel, how do I do this thing?’ (laughs)
Cerid Jones (13:04):
Oh, we just lost her.
Elena L. Perez (13:05):
We just lost her. We’ll pause. (laughs)
Elena L. Perez (13:05):
Good timing, though.
Cerid Jones (13:11):
Really good timing. (laughs).
Elena L. Perez (13:13):
You’re back.
Melissa Reynolds (13:16):
I am so sorry. Discord decided to just shut down randomly.
Elena L. Perez (13:23):
Of course it did.
Cerid Jones (13:24):
I love that you disappeared. As I was like, Mel, I’ll be calling you. And then Mel hangs up the phone. Mel’s out. Don’t call me.
All (13:32):
(laugh)
Melissa Reynolds (13:35):
I swear it wasn’t me. (laughs)
Melissa Reynolds (13:37):
While you were talking about that, I actually looked up the article, “best book formatting software”, which is how I chose Atticus. So, “Kindle Create” is what it’s called. And it has preexisting templates to automatically put your book into chapters. I don’t know how much specialized formatting you can do in there. And then, surprisingly, Reedsy. Have you guys heard of Reedsy?
Elena L. Perez (14:11):
I have not.
Cerid Jones (14:13):
I’m interested that’s on the list, though.
Melissa Reynolds (14:16):
Yeah. Well, it’s an index for—you can go and find yourself an editor. So it’s like a freelancing program, a platform for editors, but also they have Reedsy book editors. So, you can write, edit, and export from their book editor thing.
Elena L. Perez (14:35):
NIfty.
Melissa Reynolds (14:35):
The cons, not a ton of format—this seems to be an ongoing theme.
Elena L. Perez (14:43):
Common theme.
Melissa Reynolds (14:45):
Yeah. For most of them, there’s not a lot of formatting options or templates and the only one that has that big—the InDesign that we’re talking about as being the way to go if you wanna do poetry and fancy formatting…
Elena L. Perez (15:01):
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Reynolds (15:02):
…it seems like they’re the only ones, but the problem is, they are $21 a month.
Cerid Jones (15:09):
Yeah, and you need to know what you’re doing with InDesign. It’s easier than it was, but it is complicated. And look, I will add in here that I actually think it’s great that we don’t have AIs. ‘Cause all these programs, they’re essentially AIs, right?
Elena L. Perez (15:27):
Mm-hmm.
Cerid Jones (15:27):
They’re, you know, online tools. Because we need to keep formatters, people who have gone to design school, they understand text design.
Elena L. Perez (15:36):
Mm-hmm.
Cerid Jones (15:36):
Proper formatters, you cannot beat. I think it’s great to hear that Patty pays a formatter. If you have the budget to do that, do that because they’re really, really good at what they do, and that’s how you get that finesse.
Melissa Reynolds and Elena L. Perez (15:51):
Yeah.
Cerid Jones (15:52):
It is always worth saving up if you want to do something a little bit funky, a little bit different. If you are, you know, into experimental, if you really want that art look on the page, pay a formatter, just do it. You know, your book will be happy for it. (laughs)
Melissa Reynolds (16:11):
Yeah.
Elena L. Perez (16:13):
Yeah. It just adds to the reading experience. Like, I mean, me as a reader, I get so excited when I see all the little details, you know?
Cerid Jones (16:20):
Mm-hmm.
Elena L. Perez (16:20):
Like the little curlicues on the page.
Melissa Reynolds and Cerid Jones (16:22):
Mm-hmm.
Elena L. Perez (16:23):
Or like the big capital letters at the beginning of each chapter, or, you know, the—well, I mean, this is not that kind of formatting, but you know, like the gilded edges on the pages. (laughs)
Cerid Jones (16:34):
It’s those unique touches, right? Like, especially if you’re buying a print book, this is the different—what you were talking before about, you know, we are putting the works in print and in digital, and like, yes, it’s awesome that we have these programs that allow us to do both in one, but I think the big drawcard of buying a printed book is not only actually seeing your name in print rather than in digital, you know, just in black and white. But it’s also holding that product in your hand. And as a reader, being able to flick through any book that has these unique, you know, markers that identify it just visually on the page as being different from the last book that you’ve read. That’s what keeps us buying books and putting them in our bookshelf rather than just buying everything on Kindle Unlimited or whatever. You know, I think that’s the big difference. If you want to stand out and have something that feels really special to spend the extra ten bucks to have a print edition on, you know, those are the things that make it stand out a little more.
Elena L. Perez (17:44):
Yeah, definitely. And not to knock ebooks or anything, because custom formatting does make a difference in ebooks, also. I was telling Mel and Cerid the other day that I was reading an ebook where I turned my background—you know, usually you read books with the white background and then the black text—but it was night or something and I wanted to switch it so that the background was black and the text was white or pale cream or something. And it was really annoying because the words had highlights in the back. So, even though the background was black, the words still had white highlights behind them. I don’t know how to describe it other than that. But, but you know, it was just clear that the formatting was not correct. Something was off and it kind of ruined the reader experience for me.
Cerid Jones (18:40):
Mm…disappointing.
Elena L. Perez (18:40):
Yeah, because I wanted to read on the dark background. I don’t remember the situation, but… Also, that’s why I asked you earlier, Mel, about the special characters because you know, there’s a lot of names, real names, but also sci-fi names, fantasy names, that have special characters, like with the little tilde or the little—what is it, that umlaut or, you know, just the accents.
Melissa Reynolds (19:12):
Yeah.
Elena L. Perez (19:12):
Stuff like that. And yeah. Yeah. But that’s just something that you have to pay attention to. And that, to me, elevates the reader experience. So, yeah. Okay. I’ll get off my soap box now. (laughs)
All (19:27):
(laugh).
Cerid Jones (19:27):
No, I think that’s all really valid points. And I mean, this is kind of a budgeting constraint thing, ’cause I’m sure, like…
Elena L. Perez (19:33):
Oh, yeah.
Cerid Jones (19:33):
I mean, I’m hearing this conversation and I know that Mel and I would both love dearly to be able to have the budget to go to a formatter and do these really cool artsy things. I know that Mel is similar to me in some respects of liking the ‘x factor’ extra. And being constrained by some pieces that come through. You know, we might not have the software that enables them to put these line breaks in this particular way or, you know, add this bit or do that thing. So, I think it’s worth being mindful, especially when we are talking, ’cause we’re trying to bring this back into the anthology projects that we are working on. If you’re working on a community project, you know, you probably don’t have the know-how and the skillset in your team. If you do, you are hella lucky. Or the budget to be able to take it that extra step further. I think for Mel and I, the main goal of this project is, our individual project, is getting a complete work out there that looks professional, that looks clean, and has as much touches as we can give it. But we have to be mindful of, you know, the expectations of what we have accessible to us.
Elena L. Perez (20:55):
Yeah.
Melissa Reynolds (20:56):
Yeah. Yeah, that’s part of why I am happy to do it, but I also would love to spend as little as possible on this because we are not just, you know, Patty is adamant about, ‘Hey, let’s not put too much of our own money in this’. She’s very open to, ‘Hey, we can drain what’s left in the writers group funds and then we’ll replace it, we’ll pay it back’. And that makes me extremely nervous because I would much rather almost put up my own money than do that, you know, because it’s not just—I know it’s a community project, and so the community funds supporting it makes complete sense, but there’s something different when you’re using other people’s money versus your own.
Elena L. Perez (21:48):
Mm-hm. That’s true.
Melissa Reynolds (21:48):
You know, right now, the only cost we’ve done is to buy the Atticus software. So, it’s nerve wracking for sure. Another reason why I wanna do a really good job. (laughs)
Elena L. Perez (22:01):
I mean, we’ve talked about this in another podcast, but it just comes down to reality. Balancing costs versus how much time you wanna put into it and all that stuff. So, Mel, you already said that you and Patty have plans to advertise on social media and at bookstores. Any other way that you’re getting the word out?
Melissa Reynolds (22:25):
We’re working on the website for the writers group. That’s kind of fallen through the cracks. That’s another project I started with George ages ago and Jeremy gifted us a website and it’s still not live. So, my goal is to get that up and going so that we can, you know, feature the anthology there. Then we’re also looking at, there’s a new bookstore starting downtown that I’m excited to check out. It’s one of those little ones that is more indie feeling, so I’m hoping that would be a great place to have a reading, bring in group members and different contributors and just have a fun couple of hours interacting and reading and all that good stuff.
Elena L. Perez (23:17):
Book launch. Fun times.
Melissa Reynolds (23:18):
Yeah. And then, Patty knows people at our local newspaper, so we’ll probably run an article there and I’m not sure what all else. I have an old book that’s, like, ‘A Thousand and One Ways to Market Your Book’.
Elena L. Perez (23:35):
Oh, that’s right. (laughs)
Melissa Reynolds (23:37):
I’m going to look at that and see if there’s any ideas there that are usable. Oh, I just thought of something. So, George’s daughter did a reading in his honor this past Saturday. So, you know, we had the funeral and everything, but then she’s, like, ‘this isn’t my dad. He needs to have a room full of writers to remember him’.
Elena L. Perez (24:01):
Aw.
Melissa Reynolds (24:02):
So, she organized at our local art center to have, I think about five, five or six of his works read aloud. And while we were there, Patty printed out the book cover and framed it and then put down a sheet for pre-orders. So, we are already in the pre-order stage.
Elena L. Perez (24:27):
Oh, nice. That’s awesome. Well, it sounds like you’re covering all the bases for now. So far. So, yeah. How about you, Cerid?
Cerid Jones (24:36):
Oh, well, I mean, Mel’s miles ahead of us. Our publication month is November. That’s where we’re aiming to get everything done by. We’ve just moved on to the editing phase. It’s gonna start in the next week or so. I’ve already done a pre bit of that while I was—I can’t help myself whenever I read a story, if it’s in a Word document, I just start editing. It’s how my brain works. (laughs) So, I’ve already done some stuff towards that. But we’re aiming for September to be all done with all the, like, all the pre…preliminary? I just can’t talk today. You know what I mean? The pre-edit edit stuff.
Elena L. Perez (25:20):
Yes.
Cerid Jones (25:20):
And then proofreading time. And then formatting will be October, November. And proofing. At this stage, there hasn’t been any discussion yet with my team about how we are going to go about promoting the book. As I say, they’ve, you know, there’s been two previous SpecFic anthologies. I don’t know what they did for those. We will be printing in print and ebook. Print will be print on demand, which basically means that is a cost that we are cutting, by saying, you know, if you wanna get a print version, then you’re paying directly for it to be printed and sent to you. I don’t think we are doing an initial print run. Depends what’s left in our budget, whether we can do that, whether there is budget available and there is consensus across the core to do a book launch. I would love to do an actual proper book launch. I think that would be a really beautiful thing to be able to do. I’d love to have, you know, some print copies to be able to have signed by our authors and all of that jazz. Do the whole proper publishing route, but it really does depend on constraints. I mean, our authors are from all the way across New Zealand. I don’t even know who we’ve accepted or where they’re located, whether they’re available, what location across New Zealand we would choose to be able to do an official launch.
All of those things, when you’re working in a nationwide organization and everyone is spread out all over, there are a lot of extra factors that can kind of inhibit some of what we might like to do. I mean, in a traditional sense, it’s a lot easier—like Mel, you know, I mean Morgantown (writers group), everyone’s sort of locational more or less, at least the majority are in some sort of distance from each other, so it’s a lot easier for you guys to organize events and do things collectively. Whereas, I mean, even in our core team, we’ve got some in the north island, some at the top of the north island, middle bottom, south island, top bottom, you know, (laughs) it’s so long and there’s a little bit of ocean between the north and the south, so it all gets a little bit more complicated. And again, that’s a new challenge for me, working on a collective. I’ve definitely organized some book launch stuff for individual authors and locational even via distance. Actually, I haven’t done one physically here. I’ve been doing them for distance for people in Australia, which is very interesting. That’s a digress. I’m gonna cut that out. That’s not necessary. Cerid has got on a little bit of a ramble-tangle. Okay. Back to the point. Yeah.
So, we have some extra challenges in and around doing that and I don’t know what the previous methodology has been in and around the anthologies. So, that’ll be new. And no doubt me being me, I will, attempt to try and bring some of my own ideas into play here and see what we can do. But my hope is that we will be able to get something physical happening in some way, shape, or form, that we will be able to do some form of official launch for it, whether that’s being virtual or physical. The way that the book has been available before is…SpecFic website we already have up and running and we have a database where you can go on and look at all the authors who are members. There’s links to where to purchase their books. So, it’s a collective site, you know? Some people are traditionally published and some people are self-published. Our anthology will get listed on there and be available through that format.
Elena L. Perez (29:27):
Nice.
Cerid Jones (29:27):
And obviously we’ll advertise it on our social media pages that already exist. So, that’s the base minimum that I know is a shoe-in. The rest, you’ll have to talk to me about that closer to the date. Like I say, hopefully around September, October is when we’ll be able to get to planning that. For right now, it’s just getting the editing and working with the newbie editors, getting these pieces polished.
Elena L. Perez (29:53):
Nice.
Melissa Reynolds (29:54):
I would like to to point out that I may be ahead (of) where you are, Cerid, but I’ve been working on this for years, so I just wanna point out that what you guys are doing is great because you have, you know, this is what, six months timeline? Somewhere in that area? So, you are accomplishing what took George and I many years to get to. So, my hat’s off to you and to your team. I think that’s amazing.
Cerid Jones (30:27):
Aw, thanks Mel. Yeah, we finished…so submission deadline was, I think, end of May. We advertised the beginning of this year, we advertised for submissions to come through. I think they opened up in February, so we had from February to May to get the submissions in. Then our next deadline—I set up deadlines because that’s how I have to function—and so far no one has had a problem with me setting up deadlines, which is great. (laughs) So there’s the structure formula. I don’t know if they did that before. But yeah, I’ve been very methodical with setting out what’s a realistic time span for each of these phases and each of these steps so that we are only spending, you know, a year working on this.
And as editors, only a condensed sort of chunk of time so that it’s easier to clear space from everywhere else to be able to focus on that. And all our editors, our extra editors, we got through putting out an advert in our newsletter, our monthly newsletter that we send out in SpecFic, ’cause I sort of said, look, you know, I think it would be really good to have a few extra hands on deck. I don’t want all the responsibility on me. (laughs) Mel, I think I kind of learned a little bit from you, from talking to you about this process a little bit. And I went, ‘yeah, I don’t wanna have all of this on me’. I’m happy to teach new people. So yeah, we got two story or line editors come through from that and then we had a proofreader come through from that, as well. All volunteer, all from inside our community. And I don’t know if SpecFic had done that before, either. I think it had always just been members of the core who’d navigated and run the whole process, so that’s also a new element that’s been brought in.
Elena L. Perez (32:33):
I have to say, I like that. You brought that up earlier, too. You’re just like kind of restructuring everything and kind of bringing in new people and I think that’s really important because you get new perspectives and new ideas and, you know, new ways of doing things that the core people who have been doing it for years, maybe…I mean, not just for this project, but I’m talking in general, you know, that they don’t think of because they’ve been doing it for so long. So, I think that’s really great and I’m excited that you’re spearheading that, so hats off to you.
Cerid Jones (33:10):
Aw, thanks.
Melissa Reynolds (33:11):
Yeah, and along those lines, the original people, you know, they can also help. The new people will help them see things differently, but they can lend their wisdom to the new folk and help them gain some experience, too. So, it’s a win-win on both sides.
Elena L. Perez (33:30):
Exactly.
Melissa Reynolds (33:31):
It really is.
Elena L. Perez (33:32):
Mingling of the generations.
Cerid Jones (33:34):
Yeah. That’s exactly the idea. Like, I think whenever you’re doing a community project, and Mel, you’ll be able to reflect on this, too. I mean, you’ve already mentioned as much, (but) it becomes about that upskilling within the community. Like it shouldn’t be…I think that’s kind of where the power dynamics become a little bit tricky, too, in any of these community volunteer sort of settings.
Elena L. Perez (34:01):
Mm-hmm.
Cerid Jones (34:01):
But I do think that any collaborative project should always be about the sharing of skills and experience and everyone being able to upskill in different areas.
Melissa Reynolds (34:13):
Mm-hmm.
Cerid Jones (34:13):
And get that experience because then they take that on to whatever other projects they’re involved in, whether it’s their personal publication or maybe some of these new editors that we’ve had, you know, jump in and get involved, get really inspired, and they wanna do an anthology themselves and that would be amazing. You just never know. I think that’s kind of part of where I say power dynamics, that has to do with the gatekeeping thing. You know, I’ve done a lot of interning with different publishing houses, and I did always feel like there was kind of a lot of a gatekeeping. I’ve always been really interested in understanding how the formatting process works, for example, and I’ve never been taught that.
Elena L. Perez (34:56):
Yeah.
Cerid Jones (34:56):
You know, being able to be part of a community where you can skill share and upskill can be a really nice way of strengthening that community, strengthening that ethos, and empowering individuals in the industry and the areas that you want to see progress happen in. I kind of think that’s…
Elena L. Perez (35:21):
Mm-hmm.
Cerid Jones (35:21):
…that’s where I’ve decided it’s okay to be a bossy boots and come in as a newbie and be, like, ‘okay, so we’re gonna change this and we’re gonna do that’ because that’s what’s driving it for me personally. I want to see that happen and I think sometimes I might…
Elena L. Perez (35:36):
Good, good battle to fight for.
Cerid Jones (35:38):
Yeah, I just hope I don’t always come across as a steamroller who walks and goes, ‘right, here we go, well, we’re gonna do this and we’re gonna do that and no, no, no, none of this’ and just suddenly take over. That’s what I hope I’m not doing because my instinct is not, but you know, you never know. It’s all new. (laughs)
Elena L. Perez (35:57):
Well, both of these projects sound so exciting and I’m really looking forward to seeing the finished products. So, Cerid, you said yours is gonna be finished in November?
Cerid Jones (36:10):
Yes, November.
Elena L. Perez (36:11):
And then, Mel, yours is finished?
Melissa Reynolds (36:14):
We are hoping for November, as well.
Elena L. Perez (36:17):
Oh, nice.
Melissa Reynolds (36:17):
The hope is that I can send out a mostly finished final draft to proofreaders by the end of this week.
Elena L. Perez (36:26):
Oh, exciting.
Melissa Reynolds (36:28):
Yeah. But then, you know, Patty is, like, ‘okay, this is how we do it from our novels’. So, I think it’s gonna be a little different this time, so Patty might learn a little this time around, too. The plan is beta reading, then Patty and I are gonna read it closely again, and then we’ll start working more closely with the formatting. And I think that should put us towards the end of October by the time all that’s done. So, yeah, November. Mid-November, maybe.
Elena L. Perez (37:01):
Awesome. Well, we might have to do a follow-up podcast to see how it all went. In the meantime, last question—tell me your predictions for how it’s gonna go. What do you hope for these projects?
Melissa Reynolds (37:19):
Oof, I knew this was coming, but I still feel unprepared to answer. (laughs) My hope is that we’ll do George’s memory, you know, make him proud, do him justice, and then encourage maybe some of the writers in the group that haven’t published yet formally. And then just have it be a beautiful piece of work that we all did together that we can be proud to put on our bookshelves.
Cerid Jones (37:50):
Aww.
Elena L. Perez (37:50):
All wonderful goals.
Cerid Jones (37:53):
How wholesome is that answer? Like, I wasn’t prepared for this, she says, and then she drops something that makes everyone go, ‘aww’.
Elena L. Perez (38:00):
(laughs)
Cerid Jones (38:01):
So lovely. That is so lovely.
Elena L. Perez (38:03):
That really is.
Cerid Jones (38:04):
Which is gonna make me feel like I sound like a complete dick because I’m sort of on the almost opposite end. Don’t get me wrong, some of those things, too. Like, you know, I’m really hoping that we are able to progress and continue to progress on making speculative works more accessible. But on a kind of a semi-personal-ish standpoint, I’d really love this collection to be polished enough, impactful enough, that it can be put up for some awards, you know, some New Zealand awards.
Elena L. Perez (38:42):
Yeah.
Cerid Jones (38:43):
And that’s what I’d love to see. I’d love to be able to have, when I come to leave SpecFic, whenever that might be, that the one thing that I contributed to them really got some attention to the organization and their community and what we have to offer. So, it’s a very business—like compared to Mel, Mel’s all, like, ‘oh, this is a beautiful memory thing and this wonderful community’. And I’m, like, ‘no, I just wanna do something that’s got awards and is successful on that level’. I mean… (laughs)
Elena L. Perez (39:17):
(laughs) It’s like we were saying earlier, you know, everybody has different definitions of success and neither is wrong, neither is right.
Melissa Reynolds (39:25):
Absolutely.
Elena L. Perez (39:25):
They’re both valid and they’re both wonderful goals.
Cerid Jones (39:30):
I’ll slide in something else that I’m hoping to achieve out of this, which is not specific to this collection. I’m hoping that now that Mel has had the experience and I’ve had the experience that the three of us can collaborate on doing an anthology of our own some point in time in the future.
Elena L. Perez (39:49):
Here, here.
Melissa Reynolds (39:49):
That would be amazing.
Cerid Jones (39:50):
That really is the underlying goal I’ve got, ’cause I’d love to work with the two of you to do this. It would be a lot of fun.
Elena L. Perez (39:59):
Oh, same.
Melissa Reynolds (40:00):
It would.
Elena L. Perez (40:00):
That would be. Well, things to look forward to. Okay, I guess that’s the end of this conversation. We might do a follow-up, as I said, to see how it went for both of you and to share links because we know that our audience will wanna buy copies after you’ve talked up the anthologies so much. (laughs).
Melissa Reynolds (40:23):
Yeah, I hope so.
Elena L. Perez (40:24):
I definitely do. Yeah. So, we’ll leave it there for now. Thank you both for talking with me about this. I am so glad I got to pick your brains about these projects ’cause I was so curious and I hope this was a fun conversation for our audience.
Melissa Reynolds (40:41):
I just wanna say thank you to you. You were fantastic. And taking the time to care about all these things. You’re just awesome. Thank you.
Elena L. Perez (40:50):
Aw, thanks Mel.
Cerid Jones (40:52):
Absolutely echo that. Thank you so much, Elena. I really appreciate you constructing this and giving us the space to talk about this. It’s really nice and affirming.
Elena L. Perez (41:03):
Oh, of course.
Cerid Jones (41:04):
Um, it just feels good, so thank you.
Melissa Reynolds (41:08):
Yeah.
Elena L. Perez (41:09):
Aw, yeah, of course. And thanks for suggesting it. This was so much fun to talk about and find out new things. I learned new things, so, yay. This was fun.
